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Mel's Angels?

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Old 01-14-2002, 01:20 PM   #26
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However, in Mel's defence, this is his explaination:

Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Lastman told the Star he went to the hotel because he wanted to make sure everything was OK.

He said he shook the biker's hand because he was frightened.

``What am I going to do?'' he said. ``Not give them my hand? I'd be afraid not to.''
</font>

.... which if it is true, would be understandable.

.....but who knows.....
indeedily,


dan.

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Old 01-14-2002, 01:23 PM   #27
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you guys are such hypocrites. you bitch here about the bikers but who the fuck do think is putting the drugs many of you do in your hands? let's not be stupid about this.
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Old 01-14-2002, 01:39 PM   #28
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rosey:
let's not be stupid about this.</font>
Exactly my point.

Bias
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Old 01-14-2002, 01:53 PM   #29
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sporty Dan:

Go to an Ottawa party and you will get a MUCH different impression of hells angels.

They have succeeded in getting the best after hours bar in the city closed down, and 2 weekends ago some hells angels guys with guns came into a party. I also fondly remember walking into the bathroom at Atomic and seeing a guy laying on the floor bleeding, surrounded by cops. He was stabbed by some hells angels guys over a drug deal. The bouncers of the club let the guys in without searching them cause 'they were his friends.'


dan.

</font>
^^^^ BINGO!!!!


As I have said in past I had the pleasure of throwing a party in Ottawa a week after the Hell's Angels had a celebration. Half dozen people went to hospital that night, our cars were broken into. There was severe violence and it wasn't limited to the higher ups. They take over drug markets and other enterprises by putting people in hospitals.

Picture 30 Hells Angels in unifroms standing on the bars at system. Announcing that the club was now there's. Picture Hells Angels comming to the door of a party and explaining that the party is now there's. This is how they operate, they come in and they take over using whatever means are necessary. Those who stand up against them get beaten up untill they're silent.

They flood markets with drugs, they take over business's, they extort money for protection. We're not worried about vandelism or about them killing one another. But these guys have no issue with burning a few houses down, or blowing up a tow truck or ten.

They had no problems what so ever taking over montreals club and after hour scenes. They took over Ottawa and they're throwing a party on King Street and you don't see how this is a problem for us.

Couple of years ago the ravers and clubbers in Toronto got togther to reduce the presence of GHB in clubs and raves. There had been some very bad incidents that had occured and we chose to self regulate ourselves and deal with the problem. Well if this happens again and its the Hells that supply the drug we can't just shut it down.

When unreasonable security occured at the Hullabaloo at the docks, Sean Parsons reviewed the tapes and acted accordingly. The first business these guys take over is the bouncers and security. Picture security that is there to protect drug dealers rather than the promoters and the partiers. Picture parties going of smoothly only to be robbed at gun point.

These guys are going to have to kill people to make money. Some of these people might be closer to you than you realize. These guys will take and take and only bring hardships in return.
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Old 01-14-2002, 01:55 PM   #30
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rosey:
you guys are such hypocrites. you bitch here about the bikers but who the fuck do think is putting the drugs many of you do in your hands? let's not be stupid about this.</font>
welcome to the TRIBE board
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Old 01-14-2002, 01:58 PM   #31
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rosey - they aren't being hypocrites.

people can use drugs and still disapprove of the organizations using violence to obtain a monopoly in the trafficing "industry".
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Old 01-14-2002, 02:04 PM   #32
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Klubmasta Will:
rosey - they aren't being hypocrites.

people can use drugs and still disapprove of the organizations using violence to obtain a monopoly in the trafficing "industry".
</font>

NOPE!!!


Sorry I can't see how someone can buy something with full knowledge of the fact that they're supporting organized crime.

Its just as wrong for me to buy something I know is stolen from your home as to steel it from there myself.
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Old 01-14-2002, 02:12 PM   #33
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ditto Much:

Its just as wrong for me to buy something I know is stolen from your home as to steel it from there myself.
</font>
well said.
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Old 01-14-2002, 02:14 PM   #34
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first of all, you're assuming that these "hypocrites" are buying from dealers who have bikers in their chain.

second - drug dealing has been around a lot longer than biker gangs. certainly someone who buys drugs can denounce biker gang violence without being a hyporcrite. (they aren't denouncing the biker gangs for trafficking drugs; they're denouncing them for the violence they use in attempting to obtain a monopoly.)
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Old 01-14-2002, 02:40 PM   #35
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ditto Much:
Sorry I can't see how someone can buy something with full knowledge of the fact that they're supporting organized crime.

Its just as wrong for me to buy something I know is stolen from your home as to steel it from there myself.
</font>
You still have this warped notion of "organized crime". I would assume there is less chance you are contributing more to some total score of human suffering by buying e with a nike stamp on it then the actual sneakers.

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Old 01-14-2002, 02:52 PM   #36
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Quirkz:
You still have this warped notion of "organized crime". I would assume there is less chance you are contributing more to some total score of human suffering by buying e with a nike stamp on it then the actual sneakers.

</font>
No I simply don't think that what Nike is doing is in anyway wrong. I think that local employment laws in third world nations can only improve if stability in the labour force is established first. Mexico only began to gain labour standards after they had organized labour, same for europe and same for canada. In the time being seperating the formation of stable labour and formation of reasonable laws you have a generation that is exploited. Sounds bad but its how countries like the Philipeans and India have started to actually improve there records. Internationally placing embargoes around these nations has proven to be even more detremental to there development. But this is really an argument of economics and social policy not about mel lastman shaking the hands of the leaders of a bike gang that has left 160 people dead in Quebec.

I'm sorry I can't support the Hell's Angels. I can't possibly reffer to them as anything other than violent thugs. I have witnessed little kids walking out of parties with there faces kicked in. I can't even suggest that turning a blind eye is moral or ethically acceptable.

I don't see how my opinions are going to change or influence anything in this regard. Buying a pill from these guys is like buying a lamp made in nazi germany. Its morally and ethically wrong to support them.
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Old 01-14-2002, 02:59 PM   #37
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I don't buiy Lastman's explanation of his handshake, that he was scared...

He's the mayor of the city and represents all 2 million and however many people are in the city when he shakes their hand. He knew full well going over to the hotel that there would be bikers there. If he was so scared, he should have brought security along with him.

It's just another example of his weakness, proving that Mel is not man enough to lead this city. And it's a slap in the face to everyone who has ever been a victim of the Hell's Angels.

Pete
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Old 01-14-2002, 02:59 PM   #38
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oh I agree, hells angels are violent thugs, most of them get off on the rep and that's there biggest reason for being. Whatever money or profits they make off anything else is a side-product of that. But when criminologists talk about organized crime today they mean an often loosely associated group of people who work towards a criminal purpose for profit. You might be able to fit the hells angels into that definition, but not well, it's better to just call them organized thugs.
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Old 01-14-2002, 03:03 PM   #39
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rosey, if you are going to buy drugs, and you have no way of knowing whether or not you are buying something that has passed through the hell's angels network (regardless of the percentage that does in fact pass through them), are you not allowed to disagree with the hell's angels?

the hell's angels didn't invent drugs. they are just trying to monopolize the market as they have in montreal and ottawa.

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Old 01-14-2002, 03:09 PM   #40
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rosey:
you guys are such hypocrites. you bitch here about the bikers but who the fuck do think is putting the drugs many of you do in your hands? let's not be stupid about this.</font>
The word "hypocrite" has been thrown around way too much on Tribe lately.

No one here is being hypocritical. Hypocritical would be if I were a member of the Hell's Angels and I started bashing them.

Hypocritical would be if I posted a "who's your favourite Hell's Angel" thread before this one.

Pete
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Old 01-14-2002, 03:12 PM   #41
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Booty Bits:

the hell's angels didn't invent drugs. they are just trying to monopolize the market as they have in montreal and ottawa.

</font>
That's police bullshit.
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Old 01-14-2002, 03:15 PM   #42
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Any group of people that powerful deserves respect. Mel greeting them was a good idea, no matter how many villagers wave pitchforks about it. He may be a liar and a coward but stupid hes not.
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Old 01-14-2002, 03:16 PM   #43
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How was it a good idea? Please explain.
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Old 01-14-2002, 03:18 PM   #44
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If they’re on personal grounds with Mel they’re much less likely to cause problems for him.
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Old 01-14-2002, 03:19 PM   #45
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And if anybody doesn't beleive me about the police hyping the hells check www.mapinc.org/drugnews, and search on angels.

You'll notice about 95% of the stories that come up, and there isn't that many of them considering the volume that site gets, are police commentaries on the angels. mostly by canadian police forces It's all they're doing this, they're doing that, they're going to do this. The very few busts are relatively small.

Anyways, don't beleive the polcie bullshit, they're just clamouring for more money and tougher laws when we to do need neither.

Anything visible that appears is easy for them to make an issue over they will. Like raves, like ecstasy, like lots of other bullshit.
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Old 01-14-2002, 03:19 PM   #46
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What are you talking about? Because the bikers would be buddy-buddy with Mel they're not going to try to take over in Toronto like they have in Montreal? That's absurd.

Pete
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Old 01-14-2002, 03:20 PM   #47
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Hells angels could't take over Toronto, not even they are uptoo that task.
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Old 01-14-2002, 03:21 PM   #48
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by willis:
If they?re on personal grounds with Mel they?re much less likely to cause problems for him.</font>

You can't be serious..
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Old 01-14-2002, 03:30 PM   #49
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The Hells angels are also high in responsibilty for flooding our scene with shitty drugs to turn a profit. Lots of the drugs in Toronto come in through montreal.
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Old 01-14-2002, 03:34 PM   #50
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drugs come from organized crime. period. end of story. hell's angels, para-dice riders, satan's choice, the outlaws, the mafia (italian, russian, polish, etc.), triads, yakuza, posses, crews. whatever you want to call them, whatever their degree of sofistication and internal structure, any network that produces or harvests illegal narcotics and brings them to market is organized crime. and you never know eactly how or who died for it.

personally, i rationalize it this way, sure crimes were committed, people may have been murdered even, to get this drug into the country and into the market but that's the governments fault for making it illegal in the first place.

sure, the angel's didn't invent drugs. and they may well be the worst possible thing that could happen to our scene. but they are a product of the public demand for what they sell.

and pete, no offence intended, but i do think it is hypocritical for anyone who buys illegal narcotics to publically rage against the evils of organized crime.
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