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Thornton to san jose

Discussion in 'Sports' started by terrawrist III, Nov 30, 2005.

  1. kuba

    kuba TRIBE Member

    Yeah, only difference is the azzuri can't win shit even if it's handed to them on a silver platter (see WC USA), whereas Canada has won gold at the world champtionships in 04, and gold at the last olympics in salt lake city.
  2. Nesta

    Nesta TRIBE Member

    jake, you know fuck all about soccer, so don't talk shit.

    since when is playing brazil a silver platter?
  3. kuba

    kuba TRIBE Member

    sorry I offended. All I'm saying is you can't compare one country that can't win a world championships to another that constantly wins in the junior level, the senior level, the olympics, and on a world-cup equivalent.

    (didn't they fuck things up in the penalty kicks? baggio? sorry, i don't watch soccer too much)
  4. Nesta

    Nesta TRIBE Member

    you didn't offend me. and yes, they fucked up in penalty kicks. i'm a firm believer that a game should not be decided via a shoot-out (whether it's soccer or hockey).

    i was simply comparing the unwillingness of both countries to give young talent the chance they deserve at the international level when they are clearly at the top of their game.

  5. kyfe

    kyfe TRIBE Member

    start a soccer thread you two:D
  6. kuba

    kuba TRIBE Member

    I HATE how Canada would play Yzerman over a guy like Heatley et al. I don't know jack about soccer, you're right, AND I agree that a FINALS should not be decided in a shootout....

    So... umm, yeah,,,, pass that spliff will you? Youre hogging all the herbs!

  7. kerouacdude

    kerouacdude TRIBE Member

    come to think of it, Thornton and Baggio are kinda similar.
    Damn talented, but underachieving on the big stage.
    (says the half-Italian Bruin fan :( )
  8. SneakyPete

    SneakyPete TRIBE Member

    Jake is definitely wrong in comparing Team Canada to the Azzuri. Team Canada actually play to score, while the Azzuri play for a tie. :p
  9. SJN

    SJN TRIBE Member

    if it ain't broke........

    Based on the results the last 5 years or so, I think Hockey Canada's doing something right...
  10. StarvinMarvin

    StarvinMarvin TRIBE Member

    ok it's not the same but it's right up there and besides the being there thing, the skill level of these kids compared to these older players and stamina is 1000 times better and would better suit a team that already has a lot of vets on it anyway

    i also agree with your the last 5yrs comment but you can't deny the decline in mario and stevee y's play this year
  11. SJN

    SJN TRIBE Member

    it's really not anywhere close to the same thing....you can't even begin to compare the pressure of an Olympic Hockey Tournament to a Memorial Cup or AHL or even a World Junior tournament....outside Canada the latter are all total non-events (in Canada, we really don't realize how uninterested other countries are in the WJHC -- years ago, TSN manufactured Canadian hype for this tournament, and has turned it into a holiday tradition over the years -- nobody gives a shit about it in europe)

    i don't disagree that skill-wise and performance-wise, a lot of the kids are outplaying some of the vets, but you can't take a whole team of players under 25 to an Olympic Tournament....you need some experienced players who have been through it before...I could only imagine what it would have been like if a team of kids had lost that first game against Sweden 4 years ago -- they wouldn't have won another game....Wayne & Company will do the right thing: a team of established players sprinkled with a handful of the kids who are playing their way into consideration

    as an aside, I hope Yzerman is NOT on the team....he has no place there at all.....
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2005
  12. johnc

    johnc TRIBE Member

    If Gretzky doesn't pick Spezza, Spezza will join the dark side and destroy the Jedi.
  13. Aerius Zension

    Aerius Zension TRIBE Member

    I'd be surprised if Spezza didn't make Team Canada, don't know what the line would be like. If Yzerman retires, does that mean he's off Team Canada? He should've retired when he got that puck in the face.

    I can't see Staal playing center for Team Canada, he's have to be moved to wing, same as Crosby. They've got horrible numbers for faceoffs this year, esp Crosby.

    Talent cannot replace experience, like Stanley Cup game 7's as someone mentioned earlier in the thread.

    So, with this trade (still stunned they didn't ask for Marleau, a 1A center IMO), that would put Zhamnov as #1 center in beantown, that's scary. Bergeron plays C too, no? But he's Ovechkin's age I think. Primeau is a checking line center at best, good on the faceoff I recall.

    btw, Thornton's wanted out of Boston since last season. I ahve a feeling this trade was in the works before he signed with Boston in the summer. Unlike much of the recently signed Boston players: Raycroft, Boyton, Gill; the Thornton contract was kept very hush-hush. I smell something A Foote. :D
  14. R4V4G3D_SKU11S

    R4V4G3D_SKU11S TRIBE Member

    It was much harder to shop him with his huge salary.

    Although it is their fault for giving him the contract.
  15. StarvinMarvin

    StarvinMarvin TRIBE Member

    your right ahl and whatever is not the same but IMO WJHC is because any which way you look at you have they weight of your country on your shoulders........

    your also right in saying a team of all young players under 25 would be wrong but there's a lot more vets on this team than just mario and stevey Y
  16. StarvinMarvin

    StarvinMarvin TRIBE Member

    if they were planning this before he signed and this is what they came up with their RETARDED!

    also right up there on the retardo meter is tha fact they didn't ask for Marleau good point!
  17. SneakyPete

    SneakyPete TRIBE Member

    It was against NJ, scored by Mogilny. It was a classic wrist shot by Almo. On that faceoff Travis Green was suppose to take the faceoff by he got thrown out so Thornton had to come in.

    As for who's going to take over the number one centre role, I think Zhamnov will get the nod to start. Bergeron is struggling right now so I can't see them putting him there. This is good news for me because I got Zhamnov in my pools.
  18. SJN

    SJN TRIBE Member

    We can go back and forth on this forever, so there's not much more to be gained from it. The point is that Canadians seriously overblow the U20-WJHC (mostly thanks to a eureka moment by someone at TSN some 10+ years ago) -- yes, players have the pressure of playing under the Canadian spotlight, but (unless the tournament is in Canada) they're playing in half-empty rinks and only the Canadian media and fans really take any interest. If Canada wins, great, but only Canada really cares. If Canada loses, we wring our hands for a few weeks and then its all forgotten until the next December. At the Olympics, all the hockey nations take note and have an interest -- the stage is massive, the bragging rights are that much bigger, and you have to wait four years for another shot. A few appearances at the U20-WJHC doesn't prepare a player for what the Olympic Tournament is these days. In particular, the pressure on the Canadian players who played in the last few Olympic Tournaments was unlike anything else these guys had ever faced (outside maybe a Stanley Cup final) -- these guys HAD to win in Salt Lake (2nd place would have been a complete failure).
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2005
  19. StarvinMarvin

    StarvinMarvin TRIBE Member

    this is why I placed IMO(in MY opinion) with that statement
  20. SJN

    SJN TRIBE Member

    who else's opinion would it be?
  21. Sleepy Giant

    Sleepy Giant TRIBE Member

    Marco Strum is a hell of a hockey player. Primeau is a bit of a plug. Stuart is really going to help boston's D.

    Boston is a better team for making this deal IMO. Their forwards were not scoring enough goals to make up for their shitty team defense and worse goaltending.

    Losing 1.6 mill in salary is a plus too.
  22. SJN

    SJN TRIBE Member

    ^^ Agreed on Sturm -- he's really under-rated. Great player who doesn't get much attention b/c he plays on the west coast.

    Stuart has mountains of potential, but he's never been able to put it all together. He's been a bit of a disappointment (he was drafted in the top 5 in 1998), but maybe a change of scenery will do him some good. If he ever realizes his potential, he could be a #1 defenseman....he's still only 26, and we all know it can take quite a while for defenseman to hit their stride
  23. *SiLver*RoBoT*

    *SiLver*RoBoT* TRIBE Member

    Funny Article from the Hockey News


    by Charlie Teljeur

    Perhaps we were a little too hasty to judge Dick Pound.

    Truly it does appear he may be right that at least one-third of the GMs in the league are on the hubbly bubbly.

    Your honor, I'd like to call Mr. Mike O'Connell to the stand.

    To be fair, there's always two sides to every story and the trade has to be looked at from both San Jose's and Boston's perspective. Only after closer examination can we really determine who won this trade.

    To refresh, going to San Jose: Joe Thornton; going to Boston: Brad Stuart, Marco Sturm, Wayne Primeau, assorted Christmas ornaments.

    On the plus side, the $1.5 million Boston saves in this deal will go a long way towards the $12 million they plan to offer Martin Lapointe next summer.

    On the plus side, the Sharks get Joe Thornton.

    On the plus side, the Bruins get a proven center in big Keith Primeau. Say what? Wayne who?

    On the plus side, the Sharks get Joe Thornton.

    On the plus side, Marco Sturm goes a long way towards attracting that lucrative Cambridge-Germanic-upwardly-mobile demographic.

    On the plus side, the Sharks get Joe Thornton.

    On the plus side, the Bruins are already plenty deep at center with Zhamnov, Boyes...and uh...that guy over there. And that other guy, whose name I can't think of right now.

    On the plus side, the Sharks get Joe Thornton.

    On the plus side, the Bruins have plenty of scoring to take up the slack in Samsonov, Glen Murray and the ghost of Phil Esposito.

    On the plus side, the Sharks get Joe Thornton.

    On the plus side, the Bruins got the thumbs up from Mike Milbury.

    On the plus side, the Sharks get Joe Thornton.

    On the plus side, the Bruins have the TD Banknorth Garden double-booked for April anyhow, so it would be best not having playoff hockey mucking up the schedule even further.

    On the plus side, did I mention that the Sharks get Joe Thornton?


  24. kerouacdude

    kerouacdude TRIBE Member

    the Canadian pundits have such a hard-on for the guy.

    Nail on head from the Boston Globe:

    Joe had to go
    By Jack Edwards, NESN Staff
    The big mistake was making him the captain in the first place.

    Joe Thornton is a wondrous passer, a phenomenal catalyst for scoring, a likely member of the 2006 Canadian Olympic team, and an offensive force with which many, many teams will have trouble for a good number of years to come.

    But he was not a great leader.

    This doesn’t make him a bad guy, but it made him the wrong guy to give direction to a team that desperately has been seeking it.

    One of the two images of Thornton that stick out in my mind for his final season’s work with the Bruins is generic, one is specific. The generic is the one that made the B’s the most prolific-scoring 5-on-3 team in the league: Thornton, setting up in the right wing circle with the puck on his forehand, ready to thread a perfect pass to someone crashing on the far side – Bergeron, Leetch, or Murray cocked and ready to fire. The specific image is that of Thornton burying a Maple Leaf with a check behind the Boston goal line on the night before Thanksgiving.

    There was too much desire to dangle as in the former, not enough desire to lay the lumber like the latter.

    Professional athletes have seen it all twice. They have heard all the talk while they have walked the walk. It is my experience that professional athletes respond only to one thing: action. Now, taking nothing away from Thornton’s finesse, it’s hard to get all fired up about a pretty pass. What put a charge into the B’s this season was when Thornton would make one of his rare bull rushes a la Erik Cole or blasted the body on someone in the wrong color sweater. To hell with subtlety. It’s bashing bodies that gets teammates’ attention.

    Was Joe accountable as captain, and did he insist on his teammates’ accountability? What players say in the room will stay in the room for the most part, so as non-players we never will really know – but it sure seemed as if there were a few riders in the early part of this season that never got called out by the captain.

    Maybe Thornton didn’t feel comfortable doing that. Okay, again, it doesn’t make him a bad person – but it does make him an ineffective leader. I wish him luck in San Jose, and -- where he will not have to bear the burden of personal leadership – he may have some fantastic years there.

    Coming here are three fabulous skaters: As a play-by-play commentator for ESPN’s NHL coverage for five years, I was principally assigned to the Pacific Division. I got a lot of looks at the three players coming to Boston. Brad Stuart is the real deal. Stuart can move his body and move the puck – the two things the Bruins have needed most on the blue line. He has a ton of NHL experience (377 games) and he’s only 26. An excellent passer, he will immediately improve the Bruins’ situation when he’s on the ice. Will he make the occasional mistake in the Bruins’ defensive zone? Yes, but who better to offer advice to a still-improving defenseman than the B’s newest part-time coach, Ray Bourque?

    Marco Sturm has scored more than 20 goals in each of his last three seasons. He is Samsonov-quick and a pest of a penalty-killer. He creates a paradoxical situation in perception, as he creates so many opportunities that some feel he should have better numbers. If he does what he HAS done for San Jose, Boston fans should be happy.

    And that brings us to Wayne Primeau. Some lead, others follow. This guy leads. Primeau never has scored ten goals in an NHL season. He isn’t flashy, he won’t win any Homecoming King contests, but he goes into every conflict chin-first and hates, hates, HATES losing. If you knock him down, you’d better be ready to knock him down again because Primeau is going to do everything in his power to get up. He is quality depth, a guy who is proud to bring his lunch bucket to Boston.

    Gone is a great passer, a rotisserie favorite, and a nice guy.

    Here, now, are three former first-round draft picks, an extra $1.5 million dollars of cap room (you don’t think Mr. Jacobs and O’C are satisfied, do you?), and a helluva lot more re-engineered-by-recent-transactions grit (for reference: see Rangers, New York).

    This season is still in peril, and this is the most dramatic trade since Espo. But before reflexivly condemning it (check out Canadian sports websites – woo!), people ought to review some game tapes and ask themselves where the ACTION was that was going to lead professional athletes, to inspire them, to make them accountable if they didn’t give every ounce on every shift.

    Bruins fans should give this deal a good long look before casting any criticism because what we have here is a change in policy. It says hating losing is more important than keeping a star who just wasn’t a leader.
  25. Resolver

    Resolver TRIBE Member

    Guess who's going to the Leaf/Sharks game tomorrow night?:D

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