Israeli soldiers shoot UN peacekeeper...WHILE INSIDE AN AMBULANCE!

Discussion in 'TRIBE Main Forum' started by ADT, Mar 7, 2002.

  1. Sporty Dan

    Sporty Dan TRIBE Member


    They don;t give it back for the same reason Britain doesn;t give Canada back to the indians, or the US doesn;t give California back to Mexico. There was a war. One side defeated the other and seized their land.

    It;s hypocritical for you to say that Israel should give palistinean land back, but to sit quite contently in a country that was seized from another group of people and we have no intention of giving back.


    dan.
     
  2. tommysmalls

    tommysmalls TRIBE Member

    my sentiments exactly!


    ....the only reason israel is allowed to get away with the atrocities they are purpotrating in the area is because they get all their arms (and 100% unconditional support) from the good ole americans.

    why do terrorists hate america? israel? :rolleyes:
     
  3. LoopeD

    LoopeD Well-Known Member


    Um, atrocities? I think both sides are just about even on that front..........






    :)d
     
  4. tommysmalls

    tommysmalls TRIBE Member

    absolutely! - except in american (thats us) media, only the palestinians are the bad guys, and headlines like today get swept under the rug
     
  5. LoopeD

    LoopeD Well-Known Member

    I wont argue with that............

    Though from the media I've seen (not just U.S.), the Palestinian way of going about things is suicide bombing, while the Israelis are generally doing things in a somewhat military fashion...........


    Course this doesnt excuse anything, but I just don't agree with the whole blow ourselves up and take women and children with us routine. No matter what your reasons may be.




    :)d
     
  6. Variant

    Variant TRIBE Member

    Perhaps if the Palestinians had an army they could wage war the good ol way. But hark.. they have shit all and if they're going to resist Israeli intervention into their territories it'll be with any means neccesary.. what other options are there?
     
  7. LoopeD

    LoopeD Well-Known Member

    Dont give me that shit. Other options? Hows about targeting Israeli soldiers, rather than strapping bombs to yourself and walking into a crowded street hoping to kill as many Israeli citizens as possible............







    :)d
     
  8. NeverTooOld

    NeverTooOld Member

    It is the same ignorance in some of the above comments that lead to the problems in the Middle East. People act out of emotion and anger instead of working together for a solution.

    It is a long and complicated history that will not easily be settled. There were very few Jews in Palestine prior to World War II. It was Britian who then controlled Palestine that decided along w/UN and US that Palestine could become the Jewish homeland to be shared along w/the Palestinians. Probably because Churchill felt a little guilty about ignoring the holecaust. Hence, the Zionist movement is born and millions of Jews from around the world move to Palestine. It was only after Britian moved out of Palestine that Isreal was declared an independant Jewish state. A move condemned by the UN at the time. To this date the UN does not recognize Ireal's authority in the occupied territories or their claim to Jerusalem (sp). The same type of thing would lead us to go to war in Iraq or Yugoslavia.

    Isreal spends so much money on military that they must rely heavily on foreign to survive. Foreign aid that comes mostly from the US. Now we must ask ourselves which group of people holds an inordinate amount of wealth and power in the US? Therefore, influencing foreign policy. I hope this does not sound anti-semetic, because I am not. Just saying things how I see them.

    Violence is sometimes the only answer. 5000 people turned up in NYC not long ago and led a peaceful protest against the WTO. How much attention did that get? Yet what happened in Seatle is still fresh in our minds.

    If I was a Palestinian I would be angry. If Iwas Jewish I would be angry. Angry people never solve anything.
     
  9. Variant

    Variant TRIBE Member

    don't put words in my mouth.

    I was responding to the statement where you said palestinians suicide bomb as oppposed to using formal military measures.

    I'm not saying its justified to suicide bomb innocent people.. what i am saying is suicide bombs are pretty much all they have in the way of any kind of offensive.
     
  10. kuba

    kuba TRIBE Member

    ^^This point is important in North Americans understanding the issues at hand. I will admit that I am not the most unbiased person in this discussion but I can tell you this much. I was born in a muslim country. (I am not muslim, I'm polish). One thing I've learned about muslim peoples is that they will never give up. They work harder for their meagre position than anyone I know. And this tenacity will hopefully show the non-palestinians that it will take LOTS of hell to get them out of the mid-east.

    Thing is, the current mindset of the jews and -tinians is that peace will not be achieved. I work with jews in my office. They all want every middle eastern person dead. They dont care who as long as theyre dead. Because they feel its theirs and if I say anything against their position they think I'm against them.

    Just the other week there was a headline on CNN.com that read: "20 palestinians killed". The jews here were all up in arms that it didnt mention anything about what happened the day before.

    That pisses me off.

    This also pisses me off; (opening a whole new can of worms). Did you know that as many non-jews died in the holocaust as jews? While I agree that jewish people suffered greatly, How come we have NEVER EVER EVER seen a story of a czech, a pole, a romanian etc. and their position in the WW2 situation? Youre going to tell me that my dad, with numbers on his body, didn't suffer as much!

    BULLSHIT.

    The fact is: he who controls the media controls what we know and dont know. I hope peace will come out of this but until the facts are tainted, I know who I'm backing, and it aint sharon's camp.

    now let the anit-semitic, anti-jewish accusations fly my way. I dont mean to offend just to offer my POV.
     
  11. Hal-9000

    Hal-9000 TRIBE Member

    this is gonna get ugly.
     
  12. tommysmalls

    tommysmalls TRIBE Member

    you can't just take land from people and give it to people that haven't lived there for thousands of years, and expect the natives to not rebel - especially when they get pushed around more and more as years go by.
     
  13. tommysmalls

    tommysmalls TRIBE Member

    check out the chonology of events - most of the palestinian targets have been on isreali military & police
     
  14. alexd

    alexd Administrator Staff Member

    hugs, not slugs
     
  15. ADT

    ADT TRIBE Member

    CNN is owned by a gentile..



    v..abstractdatatype
     
  16. ADT

    ADT TRIBE Member

    2 wrongs dont make a right (omg i cant believe i just said that)..

    and we are not bulldozing native peoples inside their homes.. last time i looked they enjoyed a considerable amount of freedom..

    v..abstractdatatype
     
  17. LoopeD

    LoopeD Well-Known Member


    In the last two weeks, MOST of them, I guess.


    Though it stands to argue that pretty much ALL Israeli attacks were military in nature, rather than a crazed gunman walking into a restaurant with an AK-47 and opening fire................

    Sigh. This conflict has no end in sight, and both sides of every argument have pertinent points.

    To the person who said that the non-Jewish victims of WW2 weren't acknowledged, what war were you following? The reason why the Holocaust was such a big deal is because it was a disgusting act of racial cleansing, with mass amounts of Jews shipped of to death camps to be gassed. No other racist mass murder has even come close to this horrible chapter of human history. And you think it doesn't deserve the attention it got? All victims of the war were acknowledged; if the Holocaust got the most media coverage it wasn't because the Jews are controlling the media, it was because millions were killed in gas chambers like they were cattle. Actually, cattle get better treatment when slaughtered. Explain, please - your father sounds like he's alive, while 7 million Jews weren't so lucky.............

    I'm not trying to belittle your father's experience, as many people other than the Jews suffered, but entire generations of Jews were lost during the genocide - even suggesting the Holocaust was media-embellished smacks of anti-Semitism.






    :)d
     
  18. 416

    416 TRIBE Member

    Jesus.

    qtip and nevertooold.. or whatever your names are. You sound like anti-semites.

    You're making generalizations, spouting weirdo conspiracy theory shit (THE JEWS RUN HOLLYWOOD!!!! LOL) about a group that's distinguished by the fact that they're jewish. That's called anti-semitism.

    ALL THE JEWS WANT ARABS TO DIE!!!!!!!!

    Give your head a shake.

    On a completely unrelated note, ever notice how black dudes are obsessed with white women? I'm not a racist or anything, all I'm saying is that it's weird how every black dude wants to rape every white woman he sees. Of course we never really hear about it because the blacks have complete control over the hubcap racket, and we all know that whoever controls the hubcaps controls the media....

    Go ahead, call me a white power, black hating mother fucker, I know you will even though I'm not.
     
  19. 416

    416 TRIBE Member

    Oh, PS. I know these things because there's a couple darkies... ummmm... I mean, African Americans in my office who do and say certain things when they see newspapers... or something like that...
     
  20. ADT

    ADT TRIBE Member

    well.. thats not true actually, FAR more ukrainians died under Stalin than Jews under Hitler..

    v..abstractdatatype
     
  21. Colm

    Colm TRIBE Member

    Its such a terrible situation there... even worse because both sides are guilty of terrible acts of violence and oppression. Even though Im Catholic (Jesus lived in Israel/Palestine etc) I cannot agree with the Israeli state. It was made after WW2 for the displaced Jews of Europe, but it displaced a whole nation that was already there. Its even worse because Israel was basically set up as a 'Western' foothold in order to spread Western influence in the Middle East. Many scholars claim that this was done because the USSR had a better relationship there than the NATO countries....

    I just dont understand why they cannot accept and share the land. There must be more to this situation than 'Balkanist' theory of aggression.
     
  22. ADT

    ADT TRIBE Member

    my best friend is from a polish-ukranian family and his grandparents have a BIG anti-semetism problem..

    apparently (according to them) the communist party was largely jewish run, and the majority of the ukrainians (at the time) were catholics.. hence the bitterness.. im not sure how much i believe that, yes the majority of the communists were jewish, but religion was also unpracticed in the USSR at the time, furthermore Stalin was not jewish, and he was the man in charge of the killing (probally)..

    notice how it is so easy to distort history to ones own political agenda if you choose to leave out key facts?

    things got even worse when all that shit went down at aushewitz, that is the jewish community had a huge problem with the catholic church memorializing the gentiles who died in the gas chambers, they wanted to build a church or something and there was a big conflict because Hitler was a christian etc..

    this is a perfect example of why the israelis have to GTF out of palestine.. and mostly they have to loosen up a bit because they are only making enemies, and very few friends..

    they're like fuking children who need to be sent for a TIME OUT to different ends of the classroom.. NO ONE has any perspective left.. just like the examples above

    both Arafat and Sharon are butchers who are playing the political role and have no business being in power..

    the UN should step in and take control of those lands..

    i have been facinated by this topic since a young age, and although being raised un irish catholic, i have seen ugliness from both sides, even in canada..

    i knew people who handed out nazi propaganda in high-school..

    my only two jewish friends used to joke regularly about doing horrible things to arabs..

    personally, if I was jewish I could understand having a 'me against the world' attitude, and not trusting anyone who wasnt jewish, and militantly wanting to defend my religeon/state etc. because I am human and when people are racist against me based mainly off my religeon.. so im not going to just role over and throw away my heritage.. FUCK THEM

    if I were a muslim i could understand hating the Jews for the heavyhandedness with which they defend their lands, and some of the racist fundamentals of their culture/religeon.. who wouldnt in a land where you have to have a card that says your jewish to be anything other than a second class citizen.. i would want more for my children than that, and probally be willing to die for it..

    but i can understand that because I'm human too.. and thats what people seem to be forgetting here.. amidst the arguments over borders and security.. theyre all humans.. stupid ones at that..

    "fuck nationalism..

    fuck communism..

    fuck capitalism..

    fuck religion..

    fuck religion..

    fuck religion..

    fuck religion.."

    Black Flag - Fuck Religion (i think)

    v..abstractdatatype
     
  23. Klubmasta Will

    Klubmasta Will TRIBE Member

    actually, the japanese imperial army killed 3 times as many chinese and koreans in the sino-japanese war. this was attempted genocide in its most insidious form ... genetic cleansing by a force which considered itself racially superior. north american schools do not teach this, but you can read up on it yourself by searching "sino-japanese war" or "rape of nanking" on any search engine.

    i agree with the rest of what you wrote. just wanted to clarify that one point.

    peace.
     
  24. ADT

    ADT TRIBE Member

    one thing the jews are definitely going to have to get over is the intrinsic rasicm in their religion..

    its kinda like saying that God is a racist..

    v..abstractdatatype
     
  25. NeverTooOld

    NeverTooOld Member

    I'm hardly a anti-semite. I was pointing out the Jews in the US hold an in ordinate amount of wealth and power compared to other Americans. We cannot deny that this would give this goup of people an ability to have greater influence over foreign policy than poorer muslims. In 1948 the United States was flip flopping on which side to support and in fact was at first supporting the Palestinians. It was internal pressure from certain groups at home that changed the policy. I DO NOT THINK ALL JEWS ARE IN A CONSPIRACY.

    Maybe the US should withdrawal all foreign aid from Isreal and instead divert to the Palestinians for the 64years and we can see how the tables turn.

    I am merely trying to point out the inequities that exist here. The history is to long and complicated for anyone on this board to know who is right or wrong.
     

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