Cheating

Discussion in 'TRIBE Main Forum' started by Magnolia Fan, Jan 13, 2002.

  1. ~Loress~

    ~Loress~ TRIBE Member

    There are SO many different factors involved...every situation is unique. I can honestly say that I'd NEVER cheat on my significant other. Being cheated on is one of the worst feelings in the world, whether you've been with that person for 3 months OR 3 years. It hurts. However, nobody is perfect...people make mistakes. In some situations I'd give the person 'another chance'. If they screw up twice then its their loss...BIGTIME. Anyone who continually cheats has SERIOUS problems.

    ~Lori
     
  2. Magnolia Fan

    Magnolia Fan TRIBE Member


    what ever happened to "This isn't working"... i mean, it seems to me, and I think this was said before, that if you're cheating, you're really saying to your partner "look, you're just not good enough sexually, but you pay for me and stuff, so I'm gonna go fuck them for a while, then when I'm done, I'll climb into bed and cuddle with you." I mean come on. If your excuse is the person isn't good, then dump there sorry ass. Its a matter of respect. Most people deserve that much. Given two options; one to be cheated on, two to be dumped, have my partner fuck someone else, then come back, I'd choose the latter... because at least they had enough respect to let me know I wasn't fuckin em good enough and they needed better dick...

    mmmmmmm... venting long harboured feelings... tribe therapy...
     
  3. DJ Doublecross

    DJ Doublecross TRIBE Member

    See, I don't know if I agree with this. Yes, obviously people make mistakes. But is cheating a mistake? I don't think so.

    You just said that cheating is one of the worst feelings in the world, which I think most people would agree with. It's a lot worse than punching someone in the face. Both cause pain though. If you're in a boring/bad/whatever relationship, would you punch your partner in the face, and hope they would forgive you because it was a "mistake"? Of course not. How is cheating any different? It's still an act that causes a lot of pain to the other person, regardless of what your motives are. And I don't think that's simplifying the matter too much.

    Rob
     
  4. deep

    deep TRIBE Member

    I think most of the people getting down on the quote that Tearer posted are missing the point.

    There are people who have genuine circumstances to be depressed about. We all go through phases in life where we feel less than satisfied with things. These situations are NOT in dispute.

    Then there are people who thrive on drama, don't face up to the things they have to, expect other people to straighten out their life for them, etc. These are the people who are depressed not because of insurmountable obstacle but because they're addicted to it in a backwards way. On the sympathy or attention they get from others. That even though they may have it better than most people in the world their lives are just so painful. These types of people tend to suck the soul out of you, even if you do care for them and try to support them as much as possible. Because anyone who has been in such a situation learns that there is no amount that you can do that will ever be enough for the person for whom their own happiness isn't worth their own effort.
     
  5. Tonedeff

    Tonedeff TRIBE Member

    people don't possess these things in any degree...they are just words, ideas, personal belief systems, and, as such, they are pretty shaky foundations to build any kind of absolute on, e.g. I will never cheat on anyone because it goes against my morals and the very fibre of my being

    Well that's a noble sentiment, but it's just something you believe to be true, not something you can prove or say for certain will always be true. I think the point everyone is overlooking is that sometimes the stuff of relationships is chaotic and surprising, just a lot of guesswork when you get right down to it.

    If you are in a happy and satisfying relationship and suddenly meet someone who surprises the FUCK out of you and within a couple of hours you understand for the first time in your life the answer to the question, when human lips are kissed, why are they so soft? , then is this kiss really a betrayal? It's not a betrayal of yourself, obviously, because you are acting in the interests of your own happiness.
     
  6. KiX

    KiX TRIBE Member

    I agree, totally. I'm not justifying it, i'm just saying that's how it happens.'

    =tina=
     
  7. ~Loress~

    ~Loress~ TRIBE Member


    Thats understandable... but then at least have the DECENCY to tell your s/o as soon as possible.

    ~Lori
     
  8. DJ Doublecross

    DJ Doublecross TRIBE Member

    Okay, but let's say that at this point in your life, respecting other people is important to you. For many people, we try to live by this. Now if you meet someone who blows you away and totally sweeps you off your feet, you don't have to sleep with them right away. If you do, you may be making yourself happier, but you're hurting the person with whom you're currently in a relationship. And you're hurting them a lot, it's not something you can just brush aside. So how can you pretend to have respect for other people and then go and do something like that? It just shows that you are selfish. And we all know that many people are selfish, but if you originally claim to have respect for your partner and then go and cheat on them just because it surprised you SO much you couldn't help it, then you are a hypocrite.

    Rob
     
  9. Magnolia Fan

    Magnolia Fan TRIBE Member

    i've really enjoyed reading through everyones ideas on this... just wanted to say thanks to you all for not dicking around in this thread
     
  10. PosTMOd

    PosTMOd Well-Known Member

    Apparently you missed my goat question, and the paint facing reference...

    But, I did have some serious stuff first... nothing like barnyard sex jokes and face paint to lighten things up a bit [​IMG]
     
  11. Magnolia Fan

    Magnolia Fan TRIBE Member

    Actually I just felt like making a pun... or whatever
     
  12. Tonedeff

    Tonedeff TRIBE Member

    so it's all a question of timing? of waiting before you do anything physical even though in your heart and mind (where it counts) you have already betrayed this former partner? is it really just about having that conversation with your partner saying "I've met someone new, honey, and when I look at her it's like cloud banks are separating in the sky to let me into heaven, it's like the interstices between fact and fantasy, honey, god, I want to eat her toenail clippings and suck on my fingers after they've been inside her all day and she tells me they feel like wet clouds, I want to spell my name in come on her back, I want to drink coffee and do the crossword in bed with her on Sundays, I want to grow old with her, I want to get her walker for when she's too feeble to get herslf....so sorry baby you're out and she's in."

    If you're already thinking these things, if you're feeling things you've never felt before and might possibly never feel again, then I say if you act on them and cheat and then have the break-up conversation the next day or whatever, then you are not weak or immoral disrespecting person. You're just a person participating in the guesswork of life among other persons.
     
  13. ~Loress~

    ~Loress~ TRIBE Member

    What about timing... is my question. What if you've met someone and in your heart and soul you KNOW this is the person you want to spend the rest of your life with *BUT* the timing is all wrong. Can you honestly be in a relationship with that person and continue to sow your wild oats because you know 5 years down the road you'll be ready to settle down with them?

    ~Lori
     
  14. Booty Bits

    Booty Bits TRIBE Member

    i think alot of you are way to simplistic about this subject.

    these are matters of human emotion and sexual temptation -- not something quantifiable.

    some people can experience love without experiencing possessiveness. some people can imagine their significant other with someone else and be happy for them instead of turning it around and feeling like shit about it. some people rise above social conventions that just don't work for them.
    some people can care for more than one person at a time.

    not everyone has to live their lives by the same rules as you do.
     
  15. Magnolia Fan

    Magnolia Fan TRIBE Member

    tonedeff...

    in answer to your question... Yes, I would like whomever to dump me before fucking the other person even if they're thinking about it. To counter your claim, how often do you (not you specifically) jerk off thinking about your partner? prolly not 100% of the time, so since you're thinking about fucking someone else, is it as bad as fucking them? no... not at all... the point is your partner trusts you, that is why you are a couple and not just fuck friends... trust is part of that. You owe it to the people around you in every situation not to break that trust. That is how I know what I will and won't do in the future. My morals might change, but the thing that won't is my respect for others. That is essential to me. With that in mind, I will never disrespect another person by going against them. So I won't cheat on someone who trusts me because thats disrespectful.

    I don't know if I'm alone or not on this... but when my ex cheated on me, it shattered my trust in people. I'm talking about something that happened a long time ago, and it still affects me. I've learned to trust people again, but sometimes its hard, and in relationships its even harder. It really fucks some people up, especially when you're talking about a really important relationship. I hadn't just met my ex, we hadn't been dating a week... I'm talking about a long term relationship, where I truly loved her, and felt all the shit that goes along with it. And walking in on my ex fucking around with another guy just destroyed the world that I was living in. I didn't have the luxury of getting dumped the next day, I delt with it right there and then. I saw them together. That might not happen all the time, I'm aware of that. But for me, it did happen.

    To say that fulfilling ones own desires is some special thing that can't wait until you've gotten rid of your current partner is so disrespectful. If you can't even wait a day to be with this new magic person, simply to be respectful to your current partner, what kind of person does that make you?
     
  16. Booty Bits

    Booty Bits TRIBE Member

    there are PLENTY of people who cheat and ONLY feel shameful about it because society tells them that they are supposed to.

    what a bunch of wasted emotion. why not take all that energy that we put into feeling shame and use it instead to show our significant other that he/she is still important to us?
     
  17. noahmintz

    noahmintz Well-Known Member

    I don't think I really understand your question ... BUT ... I was recently put in a situation where I had met someone new ... we had a lot in common and it was pure fun ... but I was already in a relationship with someone who a care a great deal about
    To add to things we were in a bit of a downtime in our relationship
    But that didn't matter I realized that it's more important to be with someone who will bring you happiness in the long run ... rather than someone who will bring you a quick fix sort to say ...
    But then again it also depends on the person
    I've had my fair share of fun with girlfriends and right now I want someone who I can see myself with a year down the road ... rather than someone who is going to be lots of fun ... but might only last a couple months or weeks ... I guess it's all about knowing what you want deep down

    stu
     
  18. Magnolia Fan

    Magnolia Fan TRIBE Member

    btw... i don't want anyone to feel like I'm attacking them or their opinions... my posts are strongly emotional because... well... i guess I just never really got over this shit and it still tears at me...
     
  19. DJ Doublecross

    DJ Doublecross TRIBE Member

    Yes!

    No!

    No!

    It's about managing human relationships. It's about tact. It's about respect. It's about making the best of the situation for all parties involved.

    You should wait until after breaking up with your current partner out of respect for him/her as a human being. You're not the only one with feelings here. And of course you wouldn't go off on that inane speech about how great the other person is. You'd simply break up with your current partner the same way that any breakup goes. It's going to hurt, but not nearly as much as if you cheated on someone and have them find out afterwards.

    All that talk about the "guesswork of life" sounds like a bunch of symantics to me, only useful to help you shoulder the guilt of cheating on someone without facing up and accepting the responsibility for yourself.

    "Sorry babe, it wasn't cheating, it was just collateral damage!" It's a euphemism, and it degrades the other person.

    If you meet someone new who you're happy with, you need to do whatever is ultimately in your best interest... if being with the new person will make you happier, then be with them. But the way you get there matters too. Don't just forget your current partner exists... have the balls to fix your own situation before moving on!

    (btw, i'm not really this mad, I just like debating/ranting. [​IMG] )

    Rob
     
  20. Aphrodite

    Aphrodite TRIBE Member

    Marcia if you cheat on me I'll cut off all your hair.

    [back to your regular scheduled thread]
     
  21. DJ Doublecross

    DJ Doublecross TRIBE Member

    This sounds a lot like hippy-talk to me, Liz. [​IMG]

    I don't buy all that crap about being forced to accept social conventions, or "living by the rules"... we live in a society, and that society has rules, norms, values, conventions, etc. These things were formed over a great period of time, and most people accept them because they make sense to them. Of course there are people who don't agree with them, and that's fine (of course it makes life difficult for them since they are surrounded by people they disagree with).
    But when people who don't agree with their society's values start getting into relationships with people who do, you get problems. That's why people need to communicate and find these things out in the initial stages of the relationship. As you said, maybe one person will become very emotional over a situation while the other person will not. This can hopefully be prevented by communication.

    Taking the example of cheating, some people may actually lean towards a polygamous society, as you're suggesting... that's fine, there are no universal truths to this matter, but when polygamous and monogamous people get involved with each other, someone will get hurt. And just because one person chooses to live by the values of his/her particular society, while the other person does not, does not make either of them less worthy than the other, and it does not make either set of values more or less valid in comparison. Both people deserve to be happy.

    Rob
     
  22. ~Loress~

    ~Loress~ TRIBE Member

    Then that wouldnt be considered cheating if both parties involved felt this way...so it doesnt really apply.

    ~Lori
     
  23. Tonedeff

    Tonedeff TRIBE Member

    magnolia fan:

    sorry you had to go through what you did, and I admire your strong convinctions and morals on this subject, and as I said in my very first post I have never cheated on someone in a serious relationship and have no plans to do so this month, but my only point is that cheating (and by this I don't mean chronic cheating) is not always about disrespect or even dishonesty; it can also be about acting in the interests of your own spiritual and emotional fulfillment, and in the process another person gets hurt, and that's a fucking shame. Telling that person that you have met someone new before acting on your desires might spare them a little heartache, and it's the polite thing to do, but the difference it makes it's very slight in my opinion.

    But I'll tell you this: the thrill of cheating was around long before we had a word for it, or concepts such as monogamous relationsips, and the reason has more to do with simple chemical and physical connections between two human beings than it has to do with morality, trust, or respect. These are the words modern man has used to dress up and complicate what is a simple but constantly variable equation: round pegs in round holes, fingers intertwined with fingers, eyes looking into eyes, etc.
     
  24. ~Loress~

    ~Loress~ TRIBE Member

    but there is definitely a difference between someone who cheats once and a chronic cheater... some people truly make mistakes. Anyone who cheats more then once is another story.

    ~Lori
     
  25. DJ Doublecross

    DJ Doublecross TRIBE Member

    Ahh, but are we not "modern" men for a reason? Our society is incredibly complex, and these rules and norms were formed not by some bureaucratic organization who dictates rules, but by thousands of years of experiences.

    There is no one at the helm of our human civilization. No one is steering us in the direction they want us to go. People may think they are (ie presidents, dictators, multinational corporations, or other powerful entities), but in reality, civilization is too complicated for us to predict and control. The reason we have norms, values, etc, is because they have allowed us to survive and prosper in this world. And that's not to say that they are all good, because many of them are partially the result of "bad" human traits like greed, malice, etc. But regardless of good or bad, they are necessary. If we simply broke down into your simplistic, animalistic theory of "round pegs in round holes", our entire civilization would collapse into anarchy.

    Am I dreaming? Being overly simplistic? Maybe, but who can tell? It's simply my take on life, it's impossible to tell who's right and who's wrong. It's all just philosophy.

    Rob
     

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