records.. dead?

[gsnuff]

A podcast of the mutek panel discussion moderated by Philip Sherburne.

listen here

,g

[Skipper]

heeeere weeee gooooo agaaaain

[kaniz]

will give that a look later, But - pretty much everyone I saw at Mutek was using laptops as their main tool. Of piknik 1, 2, and the final Nocturn, the only person I saw using records were Richie and Ricardo -- but still think a fair bit of their set was done with laptops.

[oeretS]

Originally Posted by gsnuff

records... dead?

"records ARE dead"


seriously though, this looks interesting, thanks.

[Interchange]

I have been having this internal debate with myself as well - I am currently saving up for a lap top and would like to get serato or final scratch..

records are so much $$ like 50 records at 15 bux a pop thats $750 for a little more i could get a program and can acesess so much more music. Why do i want to limit myself with just records? It does not make sense to me.
I will always love records and be a collecter but there is a whole world of music online that i have been downloading just waiting to be played.

Yes it sucks for artists that they are losing $ because of downloading, but well sorry thats the way it is right now and i am taking full advantge of free music. I will gladly pay for mp3s but sorry not all of them and not right now when there is sooo much out there for the taking.

I feel stale and stagnant with just playing records as a dj/artist i think you need to stay on top of technology because there are so many of us out there.

Oh and my back - being 5' 100 pounds does not help my cause but hauling rekkids for a little over 10 years my back is fukerd and my kness start to buckle...

So yeah i am not saying records will die out nor will i stop playing them but i want to incorporate more and it only makes sense to open myself up to more options.... and thats my rant..

[aki]

my dilema...i'm moving across the country, trying to keep what i'm bringing with me to a minimum. do i really want to cart all my records with me? not really.

[db]

Originally Posted by kaniz

will give that a look later, But - pretty much everyone I saw at Mutek was using laptops as their main tool. Of piknik 1, 2, and the final Nocturn, the only person I saw using records were Richie and Ricardo -- but still think a fair bit of their set was done with laptops.

This is more the nature of the festival than a general trend in media formats and has been this way since the festival's inception. This being said there's no doubt that laptops and digital formats are starting to really become prominent in "mainstream" performances.

[Skipper]

Records are near dead to me. vinyl is prohibitively expensive. being able to buy different genres of music so quickly and easily has really made me love music again because I'm not so limited buying it.

Sure, I miss the touch and feel of vinyl but as soon as I play the track and start mixing, I don't care. it is the music that is important to me, not the format of it.

and I do pay for all of my music unless I receive a promo.

[miller]

I agree w/ Peacock. Well said too.

I'm doing the same, for some of the same reasons, but also because I am moving to Australia and it would probably cost me more to ship my records there than it would to buy serato and a whole wack of digital music!

[db]

Just curious but how many people out there are actively converting an existing record collection to digital format? What format are you encoding in and what tool are you using (or planning on using) to perform with?

[miller]

I want to get a new laptop built that is hooked up w/ firewire. Then hopefully borrow my friend's Edirol a weekend or two ripping.

I hope more people post alternative suggestions though!

[praktik]

The medium AINT the message. The music is. As long as a party can be made to hop with vinyl, it will be played. The more digital takes over, the more vinyl purists will hang on to it, if only for the novelty factor.

Vinyl will never die!!

[o0OemwaO0o]

you've got to hand it to vinyl though, it lasted a lot longer than one would think....Basically its the first form of mass produced music catered to the audience, and as other forms of mass produced music have come and gone, the vinyl lives mainly due to DJs and collectors. I mean, nobody collects 8 tracks or cassettes like they collect vinyl.

of course we are in the final transition phase out of vinyl, as records get more and more expensive and DJs are finding other tools to mix tracks, but c'mon, you had to have seen this coming... i mean by now we have portable music devices the size of my pinky finger, the CD is really starting to show its age (and i remember when it was the newest craze) Computers are ruling all aspects of life including the way we retrieve music, this is the 21st century for petes sake....you had to expect that eventually there would be a technologically more advanced but still athstetically pleasing method to mixing records than actually using records...

of course i am sentimental and would never think of selling or throwing out my crates of records and my decks, but that is the rat pack in me. Hey, i gotta show my kids how to mix the old school way, when i start having kids that is.

[tEkKiD]

vinyl for life!

[JK]

I've been using ableton live (and preaching its abitities) for 4 years now but that hasn't stopped me from buying vinyl... to the contrary, with all the quality music coming out these days, and with the looming threat of vinyl's demise (but c'mon, it won't completely die off until oil becomes even more of a luxery commodity) I've been buying more new records now than ever...

For the last 6 months, I've been averaging about 15 - 20 records a month... and I'm finally converting my collection as well -- I'm now in the habit of every time my shipment comes in, I record all my favorite tracks immediately before I even think of mixing them to ensure the best quality (BTW Brandon, I record them into Logic using my powerbook and a MOTU 828 -- usually at 24 bit, in case I want to make edits, but some tracks at 16 bit in case I want to put them to cd right away)

I will never stop buying vinyl... i know its heavy and all that shit, but its real -- working with computers and cd-r's etc, we all know that they die eventually, and technology does not equal longevity -- what happens when your hardrive dies and your back-up cd'r's stop reading...
I have 3 HD's and dvd back-ups, but its impossible to be constantly backing everything up... or what if my computer dies right before a gig??

A record can be heard even with no power... you can manually spin the record on a turtable and still hear it slightly -- its still there -- and with all the amazing technology in the world, i still fird the vinyl record one of the most brilliant and beautiful inventions in our history.

Plus its the packaging... I value it more than a mp3 or a cd (how many mp3's have you trased with out even thinking about it and how many records would you just throw away?)... THE ARTWORK can be properly shown (something I love as an extension of the music), and you can READ the credits -- VERY important to me, as a musician because I can see who played on the tune (for live music), who recorded it etc. -- all this data is lost with an mp3 or burned cd-r -- all you have is the artist's name -- you could look up the info online, but it belongs to be part of the music -- It's owed to those whose hard work was put into the recording.

But there's more to it than that... its how my brain translates it. Looking at an mp3 on my laptop while dj'ing doesn't remind me of its sound and structure, where as when spinning vinyl, I see the record and I recall it instantly... and for dj'ing IT's MORE FUN!!! (and usually more interactive with the dancefloor)... again, I love ableton, but I don't want to have to use my laptop, let alone even take my laptop to every gig I play... and after a good night of partying, I just want to go home and spin tunes, not stare into my computer...

Now I welcome technology with open arms... and I will always use it to my advantage... as a techno dj THIS IS YOUR DUTY -- its fucking TECHNO for christs sake -- its not meant to stay in one place (are you hearing me you detroit purists)
I fell in love with techno because it has NO rules... and beasuse it was forward thinking. With technology now, you can make edits or remix a tune one night, and be testing it in a club the next night -- how beautiful is that!
Instant gratification.

I LOVE ableton -- and i use it constantly -- now I can improvise and interact with the music just as I do with my instrument -- everytime I think of all the possibilities I think my brain will explode with the ideas... doing mash-up and live p.a. sets is SO MUCH FUN... but its a different kind of fun.

Sometimes I want the simplicity of just playing records...

k, that's a ridiculously long post....

[JK]

one more thing... (yeah, i know, enough already...)

when they start offering AIFF or WAV's of tunes then it will be a slightly different story...

high quality MP3's are fine if you want the track as is, but if you want to make edits, chop loops, or remix the track you want actual audio. It doesn't make sense to convert an mp3 back and forth, the bass will sound like shit.
I NEVER sample other people's tunes for my original music, but I love to take bits for my dj sets or for an edit, so with the vinyl (or cd) I can get proper audio to edit.

[johnny B rad]

imma go with JK and tekkkid on this. I really don't feel like I have a tune unless I can have the record. love the vinyl

[ian]

Originally Posted by JK

one more thing... (yeah, i know, enough already...)

when they start offering AIFF or WAV's of tunes then it will be a slightly different story...

high quality MP3's are fine if you want the track as is, but if you want to make edits, chop loops, or remix the track you want actual audio. It doesn't make sense to convert an mp3 back and forth, the bass will sound like shit.
I NEVER sample other people's tunes for my original music, but I love to take bits for my dj sets or for an edit, so with the vinyl (or cd) I can get proper audio to edit.

Beatport already offers their tracks as .wave files for $1 extra.

[JK]

Originally Posted by ian

Beatport already offers their tracks as .wave files for $1 extra.

yeah, I noticed that last week. That's great!

Finally. i still love to buy the 12", but if I only like half the release , this is a great option.

I also didn't mention in that huge silly rant up there (I know its a bit 2-sided but I love BOTH mediums for various reasons), that there are soooo many killer net labels out there now that you would be an idiot not to take advantage of... I have a backlog of at least 7 full albums that i still haven't had a chance to listen too...

a good one to start with is Stratagem-Musik

http://www.stratagem-musik.com

[isoprax]

My decision is easy. I don't like a single net-label!

[Taro]

yeah I agree with peacock and jk..
although, I still buy records, they have gone down in number considerably - but that's resally because i've been broke

[musork]

I think any one who steals music like peacock (aka sara scruton) is suggesting deserves to rot!!! so you steal music using what ever app you use and then not only do you steal it to listen to but your using it to get PAYING dj gigs with!!!
tell me some thing sara do you plan on passing some of that money your planning on making from the STOLEN music your using to get PAYING dj gigs with back to the artists your STEALING from?
I have no problem with DJs who us free open source creative commons music or use itunes or beatport or any of the other pay DL sites but if your using STOLEN music you dont deserve or get any respect from me as one of the artists your potentially STEALING from!!!

[tEkKiD]

Yes!

[Skipper]

I strangely agree with him.

[praktik]

Ya, well I think the paying DJ gig changes it. If someone's playing for free somewhere, I dont think it should matter too much where they get their music.

But how about this: lets say someone regularly spends hundreds of dollars a month on records and downloads, and lets say that cumulatively, each year, this money adds up to like 3-5 thousand dollars. They get regular paying DJ gigs. One night, a hot release is available on soulseek (we'll pretend the digital download sites wont have it in time), and they're playing later that night - this DJ has purchased the whole catalogue for that label/artist (or close to). Is that DJ crossing the same ethical line as another DJ playing stolen music who hasn't made the same investment in the label/artist and industry generally?

I would def give a break to the big spender rather than the freeloader. Its nice to be able to create a black and white set of rules but there's ALWAYS shades of grey. With net distribution of mp3's for money getting so well developed these days I think most of the time the DJ who desperately needs that track for later that night will be able to pay for it and download it somewhere, and that cases like my example would be pretty rare.