Allen & Heath XONE: S2 thoughts?

[octo]

Originally Posted by AshG

i think my arm/elbow is not flexible enough to crank a rotary around in suitably dramatic Joe Clausell esque fashion.
time to start stretchin'

it's not just the arm and elbow! it's wrist, elbow, shoulder neck, head!

he starts getting into it at the 2:00min mark and goes from there

YouTube - Joe Claussell Southport Weekender 39

let's see you do that with measely sliders!

[alexd]

The 2 clubs I played at in the 80's had original Urei 1620's which were amazing to use.



At home in the disco era I had this groovy looking Cerwin Vega DM-1 that sounded OK but was really beautiful to look at. It was more about Danish design styles with nice walnut end pieces and thin minimal styling. Wasn't a knob mixer. If I could find one of those I would buy it just to look at it.

[in2house]

The S2 price and features is tough to beat considering that you want a rotary mixer. The Rane MP/XP is a solid combo and will hold its value (if that matters to you). The E&S is a nice piece as well. I tried to come up with a list of what is currently available. Here goes...

A&H - V6
A&H - S6
A&H - S2
A&H - X92R

E&S - DJR 400

Rane - MP2016 (A/S)
Rane - Empath R

Vestax - PCV-275 (w/ Rotary Kit)
Vestax - R1/R2/R3

Pioneer - DJM-3000 (w/ Rotary Kit)
Pioneer - DJM-800 (w/ Rotary Kit)

Denon - X500 or X900 (w/Rotary Kit)

Urei - 1620 LE

Most of the options listed will run you over $1000. However, if your not looking to break the bank, I would look into the Denon X500 with a rotary kit.



With 4 Channels, 3 Band EQ (w/ Kills), and from what I've heard sonically solid. It also has a full matrix output and defeatable crossfader.

Other options might include going with something used. I ended up going this route and I now have two Numark DM-1920x (one thats practically brand new), a Vestax PMC 46, and a PMC26 (which I might rebuild). Finally, if you have some patience you can always convert a mixer of your choice into a rotary.

BTW - I'd hold on to that Vestax PMC-25 as it was built in Japan. The PMC-250 which looks the same was made in China. Its a very unique mixer.

[AshG]

alright, check out this page for some very vintage mixers:

http://lightomatic.com/images/equipm..._disco_images/

[alexd]

I so remember using this one in a club in '79 or '80



Also, when I started TRIBE in 93, a lot of clubs in TO were using the pmx7000 which was a nice clean mixer in its day:



I actually saw a GLi 3880 in a pawnshop last year. A huge giant thing, It looked really beat up. or I would have bought it .. It could have been hollowed out and fitted with new parts I suppose, or a fern or spiderplant.

[alexd]

those GLis didn't look like much from the front but they went down really deep.

[solacevip]

I know a certain DJ friend of mine who would cream his pants for one of these.

I think I'd want one too.....but I also feel like the linear (and more popular version) of the Xone 92 would suit me better.

There is something to be said for rotary though.....it is as though there is signal/volume throughout the entire dial.

[TRK]

Wiseman, what mixer do you have?

[Wiseman]

[mikeryan]

i have the rotary kit on my djm 800.

i like the rotaries because it's so much easier to cut super small amounts out of the mix. super fine control i think of it as. i find with sliders you really have to concentrate if you only want a small amount out of the mix and i can never get it sounding super smooth with sliders.

i am crazy though.

i would get the xone 92 r over the s2 because there are two assignable filter knobs instead of just one.

[RumRogerz]

Originally Posted by oeretS

yeah I really like the layout as well. bet that thing's fun to play one.

There's always the classic 2016. I think you can get one (without the EQ section) new for about $1500 these days

shit i loved using that mixer

[dtox]

My first, I have played on nearly everything that rotary Rane rules p.s., I remember playing on it at element. The above though has the sweetest of sweet EQ's...

[docta seuss]

those technics faders died SO effing fast.

[djSwank]

i have experience with that A&H S2 and i would not recommend it at all. I bought it last year since I wanted to go rotary (I already own a Pio DJM800)
Returned it within hours.

I could not believe how crammed and packed in tight all of the eqs, and knobs all were. i dont have big hands at all and i could only play with the eqs with the very tips of my fingers. there was absolutely no way one could wrap a finger around say the mid EQ and turn it without inadvertently turning the bass slightly also. it also didnt get me the sound i was looking for in stepping up from the Pio 800.

i returned it and got the Rane 2016 and i've been shit happy with it ever since.
huge knobs, very well spaced out, and the sound was soo soo sweet. i noticed an immediate difference in how punchy it was,, dropping bass and slamming back in did something special. the eqs isolate so nicely, you can cut the bass and still have the beef of the track sitting in there nicely. and it really does something nice with mixing together two tracks. the signals are so nice and tight and stay together, its hard to describe but i find that in mixing with the djm800, the mids really suck, and there isnt very good definition. with the rane, you can be like a surgeon, precisely laying in the track that sits so nicely in the pocket-like aural cloud that the mixer creates.

as far as the whole linear/rotary debate. i'll just point out that the rane2016 has an assignable cross fader so you can precisely dial in your levels in a mix with the knobs and quickly chop in and out it no problem with the cross fader just like a linear mixer. you do lose some of the ability you have with a pure linear fader mixer but just remember that folks like Mark Farina and Derrick Carter have been known to do crazy 3 deck mixing with this beast. you'll get the hang of a quick turn i no time.

i also still own the Pioneer djm800 which i use every once in a while. the pioneer is really a fantastically laid out mixer that i dont think is really replicated anywhere, if not simply for the ability to have 4 different filters going at the same time. it really is a performance oriented mixer. i totally change my style when playing with it and love it. still i've done some side by side comparisons and the sound quality is simply too much. the Rane is in another league.

[AshG]

Originally Posted by djSwank

I could not believe how crammed and packed in tight all of the eqs, and knobs all were. i dont have big hands at all and i could only play with the eqs with the very tips of my fingers. there was absolutely no way one could wrap a finger around say the mid EQ and turn it without inadvertently turning the bass slightly also.

aye, i dont' know why, but for all the r&d that a&h put into their mixers, they do one of the worst jobs in the world with ergonomics. shit just seems placed at random at times, and even if it makes sense, the feel is not good or practical. one of my own issues with a&h products as well.

Originally Posted by djSwank

huge knobs, very well spaced out, and the sound was soo soo sweet. i noticed an immediate difference in how punchy it was,, dropping bass and slamming back in did something special. the eqs isolate so nicely, you can cut the bass and still have the beef of the track sitting in there nicely. and it really does something nice with mixing together two tracks. the signals are so nice and tight and stay together, its hard to describe but i find that in mixing with the djm800, the mids really suck, and there isnt very good definition. with the rane, you can be like a surgeon, precisely laying in the track that sits so nicely in the pocket-like aural cloud that the mixer creates.

yeah the rane's feel amazing, i'll say that. and the sounds they create when you move dials are super sweet, however they still do have their shortcomings.

Originally Posted by djSwank

as far as the whole linear/rotary debate. i'll just point out that the rane2016 has an assignable cross fader so you can precisely dial in your levels in a mix with the knobs and quickly chop in and out it no problem with the cross fader just like a linear mixer. you do lose some of the ability you have with a pure linear fader mixer but just remember that folks like Mark Farina and Derrick Carter have been known to do crazy 3 deck mixing with this beast. you'll get the hang of a quick turn i no time.

part of the issue is that with a rotary, you simply can't do things as quickly, when time is an issue.
but part of the issue with the rane - aside of the rotary thing - is also shortsighted design.
you can only cue one channel at a time with the rane, which is a really stupid limitation when you offer more than 2 channels in a mixer. when you're playing doubles and even just normal 3 deck mixing, being limited to cueing just one channel is super annoying and affects what you can do.
at the rane's price point, there's simply no excuse for that.

as an aside, if memory serves.... the a&h 62 allows for multiple channel cueing, but inexplicably the 92 does not. just plain weird.

[solacevip]

Originally Posted by AshG

as an aside, if memory serves.... the a&h 62 allows for multiple channel cueing, but inexplicably the 92 does not. just plain weird.

You sure about that AshG? I have a 62. Yes...you have to turn off previous cue channel when switching to another.

But on the 92, I know that when press the button and it shuts off the cue to the other channel automatically.....but are you sure you can't press both at the same time? Just a question.

[Wiseman]

Allen & Heath have the most retarded ideas about how cue systems should work.

I mean really.

[AshG]

Originally Posted by solacevip

You sure about that AshG? I have a 62. Yes...you have to turn off previous cue channel when switching to another.

But on the 92, I know that when press the button and it shuts off the cue to the other channel automatically.....but are you sure you can't press both at the same time? Just a question.

i have vivid recollections of dealing with exactly this problem spinning in montreal a few years ago, and nobody seemed to know how to get the 92 to stop doing this(automatically shutting off one cue when another is depressed). i ended up just winging it with some doubles anyway and it worked out fine, but do have a clear memory that everyone from the tech guy at the club to the other djs claimed that this wonderful feature simply couldn't be deactivated.
i could be wrong - i've played on the 92 only a handful of times, and maybe it was down to a language issue at that time i was spinning, but knowing a&h's rather underwhelming track record in terms of sensible design, i wouldn't doubt it.

[djSwank]

Originally Posted by AshG

you can only cue one channel at a time with the rane, which is a really stupid limitation when you offer more than 2 channels in a mixer. .

i dont think thats true, at least not with the version i have, 2016a. you can cue every one of the channels at will by simply pushing in the little button right next to the cue light, (very similar to djm800, just a push button)

another nice cueing feature in the Rane is the ability to play whatever you are cueing through the booth output. so you dont even need headphones, you could cue/beatmatch using your monitors. really handy feature to let you hear your mix out loud before putting it through the main speakers.

MP 2016a Mixer

one advantage that hasn't been brought up:
1. ability to put a single CDJ output through all 6 channels simultaneously.

--say you have a cdj on Aux1...well you can set each of the channels to Aux1 with just the input selector knob. allows you to do some creative things. for instance you could have all of your Highs, Mids, and Lows each on their own seperate channels and mix those in at will. or just a low pass on a channel that you can throw in quickly with the crossfader.

in essence you can turn the 2016 into a glorified 2 channel mixer with ultra precise control of Hi,Lo, Mids. mix like butter.

[AshG]

Originally Posted by djSwank

i dont think thats true, at least not with the version i have, 2016a. you can cue every one of the channels at will by simply pushing in the little button right next to the cue light, (very similar to djm800, just a push button)

another nice cueing feature in the Rane is the ability to play whatever you are cueing through the booth output. so you dont even need headphones, you could cue/beatmatch using your monitors. really handy feature to let you hear your mix out loud before putting it through the main speakers.

MP 2016a Mixer

one advantage that hasn't been brought up:
1. ability to put a single CDJ output through all 6 channels simultaneously.

--say you have a cdj on Aux1...well you can set each of the channels to Aux1 with just the input selector knob. allows you to do some creative things. for instance you could have all of your Highs, Mids, and Lows each on their own seperate channels and mix those in at will. or just a low pass on a channel that you can throw in quickly with the crossfader.

in essence you can turn the 2016 into a glorified 2 channel mixer with ultra precise control of Hi,Lo, Mids. mix like butter.

that IS rather cool.

i must be thinking of some other Rane then, or perhaps an earlier model.
i remember the one-channel-only cue thing being an issue with the Rane they had at Element, and also - I'm almost 100% sure - at Boa.

[djSwank]

http://www.rane.com/pdf/old/mpxpdat.pdf

it looks like thats how it used to be in the old version. yea that would totally blow, i'm glad they made that change. so now you can cue any of the channels at the same time and also play them out loud through just your booth monitors, which can be advantageous.

[in2house]

I think the original goal of the Rane 2016 was to replicate the Urei which had ended production years earlier in 1992 (IICR) and as result they simply copied the cueing system.

The S2 does look cramped. Perhaps they should have gone to a 5U chassis.

Anyone know if Ecler has any Rotary kits for their mixers.

[mikeryan]

Originally Posted by AshG

i have vivid recollections of dealing with exactly this problem spinning in montreal a few years ago, and nobody seemed to know how to get the 92 to stop doing this(automatically shutting off one cue when another is depressed). i ended up just winging it with some doubles anyway and it worked out fine, but do have a clear memory that everyone from the tech guy at the club to the other djs claimed that this wonderful feature simply couldn't be deactivated.
i could be wrong - i've played on the 92 only a handful of times, and maybe it was down to a language issue at that time i was spinning, but knowing a&h's rather underwhelming track record in terms of sensible design, i wouldn't doubt it.

my 92 doesn't do this. but it's entirely possible you were using one that did and they've changed how it works in later versions.

[AshG]

Originally Posted by djSwank

http://www.rane.com/pdf/old/mpxpdat.pdf

it looks like thats how it used to be in the old version. yea that would totally blow, i'm glad they made that change. so now you can cue any of the channels at the same time and also play them out loud through just your booth monitors, which can be advantageous.

that's def the version i used at both Element and Boa, and it sucked as far as that goes. everything else, bomb.
glad they changed it!

[solacevip]

Originally Posted by AshG

as an aside, if memory serves.... the a&h 62 allows for multiple channel cueing, but inexplicably the 92 does not. just plain weird.

Just clarifying...

Regarding the xone 92 and cue...

Every channel can be assigned to the cue section with a large illuminated Cue button at the top of each fader. Multiple sources can be cued together by pressing the Cue buttons simultaneously, or program material can be mixed with cue material in the headphones by using a knob above the headphone volume control at the bottom right of the mixer. You can check out cued material either pre- or post-EQ, and a split-cue function lets you listen to the master mix output in one ear and the cue source in the other.

ALLEN & HEATH Xone:92— Read the Remix review of the ALLEN & HEATH Xone:92.